Episode Transcript
<p><!--block-->Alara Sage (00:01.206)<br>Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Ecstatic Woman Podcast, where we activate and inspire women in their power, in their authenticity, and in their bliss. I'm your host, Alara Sage, and my fellow ecstatics, you know, sometimes I find often with people, they have like their regular self, and then they have their spiritual self. They have their, perhaps their career self, their business self, and then they have their spiritual self.<br><br>the self that is with their family and with their friends, and then they have their spiritual self. But we don't need to separate it, right? Our spiritual self can be the one self that we are, the self that we enjoy both in our private time and that we bring to the public, you know, even that we bring to our careers and to our businesses and to our friends and family, to the whole world. And sometimes that integration and understanding how we integrate that.<br><br>It can be a little bit tricky. And so today we're going to talk about this with our wonderful guest, Clementine Moss. Clementine Moss is a drummer and also the founder of the Led Zeppelin Powerhouse, Zapparella. She's also a spiritual counselor and a non-domination... No, that's a tough word. Non-denominational minister who practices depth, hypnosis, shamanism, energy, medicine.<br><br>sound healing and the morphic awakening technique. Clementine, thank you so much for being here with us today.<br><br>Clementine Moss (01:34.734)<br>Thank you so much. I've really been looking forward to this conversation.<br><br>Alara Sage (01:41.138)<br>So you definitely have, you know, I would say one of those opportunities, even though, you know, like the creative space is, I think is very, can be very spiritual, right? Any creative endeavor can be very spiritual because oftentimes you're really channeling the higher self. You're really channeling spirit in and of itself. However, it's not like you are 100 percent just, you know, being the spiritual counsel. You have this other side to yourself. And so have you found?<br><br>perhaps in your past where you had separated those two versions of yourself.<br><br>Clementine Moss (02:18.278)<br>Yeah, this is one of my very favorite topics that we're going to be discussing today is how we bring our spiritual life into our regular life. And yeah, so, you know, when I started, so I'm a drummer and I started playing drums when I was 27 years old, which I know is late to change course and decide to become a musician and<br><br>Right around the time that I took my first drum lesson, I also went on my first 10-day silent retreat, a Vapabhasana meditation retreat. And so these two passions of mine, contemplative practice and music, both kind of they ramped up at the same time. And then<br><br>for most of my life, I saw them as two separate things. I have the Clementine on the meditation mat and the Clementine traveling, getting in the van and traveling with rock bands as a rock and roll drummer. And...<br><br>And it was maybe 10 years ago I started to think, you know, I think that it's all one thing here, that the lessons that I learned behind the drum kit are the same as the lessons I learned behind on the meditation mat and vice versa.<br><br>And I started writing about how strange it was that I could, you know, have a week off from shows and be very quiet and spirit like reading spiritual books and meditating a ton and being in this mindset. And then, boom, like I'm off into, you know, very much in the world and all of my old patterns, all of my old excesses, all of my old attachments.<br><br>Clementine Moss (04:14.432)<br>aversions they all came kind of roaring to the forefront again and so I think that really contributed to me thinking that it was two separate things but what I realized was that when I went into my world<br><br>there was a stillness that was still present. There was a stillness that I was finding when I sat down on the stage and played the show and connected to music, connected to my heart, allowed myself to be a channel for music to move through that stillness on the meditation mat behind the drum kit. It's also present when I'm, you know, in traffic and when I'm<br><br>When I'm arguing with the promoter, when I'm saying hello to the folks in the venue, you know, it's, it's always accessible.<br><br>And that was a big shift for me to realize my spiritual life is just my life. I'm not more spiritual sitting on a meditation mat. I'm just always in this exploration of what it is that takes me out of my heart, takes me out of that awareness where I know that everything is.<br><br>is one thing. And yeah, so I guess that's a long-winded answer to say yes for most of my life. I think I thought it was two separate things, right? Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (05:48.166)<br>Yeah, I think that's wonderful. And why do you think, so this is really curious to me, and I'm really enjoying this conversation already. Why do you think you believed it was separate? Did you ever connect to that?<br><br>Clementine Moss (06:05.106)<br>I think because of compulsion.<br><br>Right. So when I'm sitting on a meditation mat and I'm looking at, you know, maybe I'm sitting and I'm in pain and I'm able to separate myself from the pain, observe the pain, bring my mind down into the pain, watch all my reactions and aversions to the pain, watch how the pain is making me think I should be somewhere else in time past or for or back forward. And<br><br>So I, when I'm in fully in the world, what I realized, what I realized is that I'm more reactive to that which is coming up. Right. And so<br><br>To me, what I was thinking was if I'm more reactive to this clementine being that's going around then I'm just this then I am sort of then I am succumbing to compulsions thoughtlessly.<br><br>And to me, that meant that I was being unspiritual or being out of my spiritual self. I was being in, you know, if we I know there's a lot of thought about like the true self and the personality self. Right. And so for me, for a long time, how I understood all of this spiritual conversation was that I had to let go of the personality self. I had to let go of Clem.<br><br>Clementine Moss (07:42.422)<br>And it was in realizing that Clem is just as holy as anything else. Clem is just as awakened as anything else. All of those compulsions, all of those things, they exist just the same as me sitting and falling into emptiness exists. It's all one thing. And I think that we end up seeing spirituality as a form of escape.<br><br>I certainly was and let me escape Clem with all of her the things that I don't like about Clem that I think you know could be better or all the ways I want to improve her. Let me get away from her and I spent most of my life trying to get away from me. First in intellectualism and then in spiritual practice like let me get away from this terrible<br><br>can't control herself. And, you know, when I started to kind of explore why I believed I wasn't like intrinsically good, why I felt I was unworthy of divine love, why or any love why I felt I was just intrinsically bad.<br><br>started to learn how to really open to the idea that I could actually be lovable, feel myself as lovable, feel myself as okay as I am. Then I started realizing, wow, I've been trying to get away from me for a really long time. I think I guess that's what they call spiritual bypassing, right, where<br><br>Clementine Moss (09:40.277)<br>where we think somehow we're not good as we are, and we need to change us.<br><br>Clementine Moss (09:51.082)<br>Yeah, so I think that really, I know there's a lot there, but.<br><br>But I think that is why I thought, okay, I'm good when I'm sitting and being contemplative and being the good meditator. But when I get up, there's just, I'm, you know, I'm just intrinsically bad. And all of my compulsions, all my compulsions are pointing to that. All of the ways I react, all the ways that I get angry in traffic, you know, all the<br><br>Yeah, that I'm not worthy, ultimately. So yeah, there's a lot of work there to do.<br><br>Alara Sage (10:37.682)<br>Yeah, it's definitely around the worthiness that we all.<br><br>need to face, right? The belief that we are unworthy, that we are separate from divinity. And I think this is something that, I mean, in my experience, everybody goes through in the spiritual realm of that escapism that you spoke of and the bypassing. I definitely did. It was different for me, but it was fundamentally the same thing. I would go into meditation for hours, experience bliss, experience all these very high vibratory spaces, and then<br><br>be able to bring that into my everyday life and I found myself quite shut down in my day-to-day life and you know it's interesting isn't it that we kind of find ourselves in these spaces because the fundamental teachings of the core of spirituality is<br><br>Wholeness and love right loving ourselves accepting ourselves and here we go about saying well that version of myself or Whatever it is, you know, I held a lot of shame. That was my thing. So it was really deep in my body the shame You know, I'm shameful or I'm unworthy or I'm not enough and Therefore like I I'm not<br><br>You know, I'm not divinity or I'm not everything that I really want to be. And so I have to change myself or I have to shift. And so it's very contradictory to really what spirituality truly teaches. And I really feel like it's part of the process, right? Because as we start our spiritual journey, we start to connect to these other spaces, right? That, that, that peace is there. Like you said, that stillness is there. That, Hey,<br><br>Clementine Moss (12:13.273)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (12:21.611)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (12:24.014)<br>I can experience these energies, like I would hit, you know, immense love in these meditations and bliss and like, well, why am I hitting it in those spaces? And then not, why am I not feeling that all the time in my everyday life? You know, so where, where is the disconnect and how do I make that coherence? And I think that's really like part of the process of realizing our divinity as humans, right? Is that coherence of bringing.<br><br>Clementine Moss (12:28.934)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (12:40.462)<br>Mm.<br><br>Alara Sage (12:53.45)<br>that energy through to our spiritual into our regular life. And I think it's a really powerful bridge that we are meant to walk as humans is that bridge that humanity is divinity. No, no matter what that looks like, you know, and that it doesn't have to be, you know, quote unquote, perfect or show up a particular way. And the other thing I wanted to point out was I always thought it was interesting. You know,<br><br>Clementine Moss (13:00.644)<br>Mm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (13:08.694)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (13:23.974)<br>If we think about like a life of a monk where they are just, you know, dedicated to their spiritual journey and they have all this time and space to meditate and do all of these things. Um, that's very, that gives you a lot of spaciousness, right? I was, um, I'm a single mom. And so there was times where my boys were with their dad and it was like, wow, I have so much time space versus when my kids are with me or when I'm, you know, in my business and that there's a lot to be said about that in the context of.<br><br>Clementine Moss (13:51.97)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (13:53.946)<br>When you're in these, just the spaciousness of the, you have the, the time, the space to just be right. You can just be literally. And when we bring ourselves into the environments, like, you know, traveling and like you were doing going and performing, right, these are very stimulating experiences. They stimulate our nervous system. And we have these deep rooted.<br><br>Clementine Moss (14:02.423)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (14:17.922)<br>patterns and belief structures in our nervous system, they get triggered. Like I'm not safe, this isn't whatever, I have to shut down or I have to numb myself or I have to do all these other things, right? Because I'm triggered. And I think that bridge of being able to bring what we know to be true on the mat into the times where we are highly stimulated and potentially triggered, that's really where the mastery really comes in.<br><br>Clementine Moss (14:42.386)<br>Yeah, that's super, that's very well said. And, you know, I think that is the reason to practice, that is the reason to carve out those times of stillness, because if we can recognize it on the<br><br>Clementine Moss (15:05.334)<br>then we do have that little tool there. And it starts, you know, the more we practice, the more it starts to show up, you know? It's like, whoa, I waited a moment before I reacted. You know, it really, we start to see the way that our reactions change, you know? And I think that is, more than anything, that is the reason for regular practice, is to open those spaces up so they can be with us in our day. Now, our days might not look<br><br>Alara Sage (15:20.467)<br>Yes.<br><br>Clementine Moss (15:35.142)<br>as peaceful as we want them to be. But again, that's yet another trap that we get into thinking that things need to be any different than the way that they are. So I think that that's really important. And another very important thing is that and I think it does get lost these days in a lot of the spiritual conversation is that I think the ultimate point of it all is to be fully<br><br>in the world to be able to love without defense. And when we can, that is the reason to explore all of the self-love practices, which are profound, because like you, I had so much shame. I was like, where is this even come from? You know, like there was, it was just this ocean of shame that I just kept tapping into. And you know,<br><br>Coming to a place where I really could be in love for the self only cracked open my heart to being able to be that way with other people. And that is the point, I think, is when you're fully in the world, when you're fully embodied and in love with others, then you're not excusing bad behavior.<br><br>but you're able to see beyond those things to the intrinsic nature of being. And just to see another person with those eyes, it can be transformative in ways that I'm sure we never will know. But I wonder how much we change when we see somebody as intrinsically good behaving badly rather than the evil person.<br><br>You know, I really do wonder about the difference in energy that we're contributing to the situation that we find ourselves in with the other person. And that's only done through first coming to an understanding of loving ourselves, seeing ourselves as worthy, seeing ourselves as connected to that vibration of love that is the divine.<br><br>Clementine Moss (18:00.71)<br>and then being able to completely open our heart without defense. And for me, I really like to see my challenge in life is where am I defended? You know, when I'm in any kind of situation, what am I defending here? What will it hurt me to see the other as intrinsically good? Why am I holding on to this need to for recrimination?<br><br>for justice, for these certain things that we take for granted.<br><br>Alara Sage (18:37.426)<br>Yeah, that's a really powerful practice. I really love that. And particularly when, you know, as you said, somebody is doing something that is, you know, quote unquote bad or maybe even evil and it's, you know, it's at you, right? And you're the quote unquote recipient of that.<br><br>Really understanding where we're defending ourselves or protecting ourselves It's such a powerful practice because it really it Shows us where a heart is closed right versus open. There's this wonderful. I don't remember what tribe it is, but there's a tribe where They do this practice when somebody does something You know quote-unquote bad and it really resonates with me because I never understood our society why we lock people up<br><br>when they've done something wrong. It has never resonated with me my whole life. It feels very isolating and abandoning. Like why are we abandoning them? Just because they've done something bad, you know? And that's a real core wound in humanity of abandonment. And none of us wanna be abandoned, right? So we try to do this like, I'm so good thing, right? Or I can't be bad. And if I'm bad, that's shameful because then I'll be ostracized or abandoned by the community.<br><br>Clementine Moss (19:25.859)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (19:38.111)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (19:47.338)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (19:52.6)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (19:54.294)<br>But anyways, this tribe, when somebody does something wrong, they bring the person and they have like a tribal community, you know, gathering, and they just talk about everything that the person has done right.<br><br>Clementine Moss (20:05.066)<br>Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've read that. Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (20:07.266)<br>talk about a total shift of how to see something, right? Because as we know, like we're oftentimes, we're in pain when we're, you know, doing things that are hurtful to other people. That's the only reason we would ever do anything hurtful to another person is from our own internal pain. And so when we shift that around and we are receiving love, wow, like I can feel it in my body, right? And in my heart, how...<br><br>Clementine Moss (20:11.804)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Clementine Moss (20:24.366)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (20:33.013)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (20:34.242)<br>powerful that action really is. And I think it's something very similar to what you were saying. We can really take that as a practice for ourselves of even if it's not directed at us, if we see somebody do something or it's on the news or whoever it is, you know, can we see that person in a state of divinity and a state of love or at least in appreciation that they exist, you know?<br><br>Clementine Moss (20:48.718)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (20:57.418)<br>Yeah, yeah, I tend to feel, you know, pretty sorrowful that somebody has gotten so far away from their, their knowing of themselves as divine, when they're doing these things. And another, I think another kind of easy practice to do, which I've done with certain political figures that really bother me is I reduce them to their child self.<br><br>You know, and, and I just keep seeing them and keep bringing them back and back and back until they're, um, you know, a young child. It looks like there are, there is, I always say there's just, there aren't evil babies. There just aren't. And, um.<br><br>Alara Sage (21:42.507)<br>Right.<br><br>Clementine Moss (21:43.926)<br>And, you know, if that helps, sometimes something like that, you know, those kind of mind games can kind of help to open to compassion. But ultimately, it really is, you know, when you were talking about shame, I mean, shame, I asked a good friend who is a therapist once like, where does shame even come from? And she said, well, you know, it's that primeval.<br><br>Worry that you're going to be set out in the in the forest away from the tribe You know that you're going to be shunned and so yeah, I love what you say about Locking people up. I mean, you know, it's a crisis a huge crisis in our on our planet right now that we do you know put people out and Now I'm not saying that<br><br>bad behavior doesn't exist and that bad behavior needs to be addressed, you know, because there are some, you know, there are some things that are just not okay in a civilized society. And yet.<br><br>Alara Sage (22:37.574)<br>Absolutely. Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (22:44.126)<br>Yes, absolutely.<br><br>Clementine Moss (22:45.79)<br>You know, I think we see this really clearly with some of the school shooters, these young men who, you know, when you trace back their lives, you know, there's a real, there has been some kind of like real sense of abandonment within them, where they just get lost. And there aren't enough resources to rally around and, and to prevent these things.<br><br>a lot of the time, unfortunately. And, and yet at the end, you know, it's often many people, you know, I was just listening to a podcast with the one, a man who started, let's see, what is the foundation it's called Sandy Hook Promise.<br><br>and his child was killed at Sandy Hook. And he ended up taking that tragedy and creating a fund that's, or a group that's been one of the only groups to help to reduce some of the, to be able to at least talk about gun control in the country. And they've done a lot of really powerful work. And,<br><br>When you hear him speak about that day, that event that took his child from him, and he speaks about the shooter, he always, at least that I've heard, speaks as if he was a wounded child himself, and he wished he had been able to get help. I don't hear him saying that he's this evil being.<br><br>Alara Sage (24:33.92)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Clementine Moss (24:34.398)<br>You know, the action is evil. The person is a child. Um, and to be able to see those kind of, hear those kind of stories from people who have been in that situation firsthand and still their heart is able to open. That gives us hope for all of us to be able to do that. I think.<br><br>Alara Sage (24:36.524)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (25:01.83)<br>Yeah, absolutely. And I agree with you that, yeah, we're not saying that we should just let serial killers run loose and do what they will because obviously that doesn't benefit anybody. Right. And it's always a question of, you know, what can we do better? And I love that story of Sandy Hook. I didn't know that. And that's such a<br><br>Clementine Moss (25:09.203)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (25:21.258)<br>profound exclamation of having an open heart, right? And living open heartedly is the most powerful thing we can do it in. And in all honesty, it can be really challenging, right? We can be really challenging. We want to sometimes be angry. We want to sometimes be resentful. We want to sometimes be hateful. And that's not good or bad either, right? That's just one of those things that we get to then address within ourselves for that desire. It can even, you know, we can even have like<br><br>Clementine Moss (25:25.557)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Clementine Moss (25:31.958)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (25:41.311)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (25:51.832)<br>highs off of those emotions, right? And addressing why we desire to feel those feelings or to feel them towards another person is our responsibility, right? We always have our own responsibility in this life and how we come, our perceptions and our actions are what we have power over to take responsibility of. I'd like to come back to...<br><br>Clementine Moss (25:54.198)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (26:21.246)<br>you know, your process and it's like, I would imagine that the, you know, the, the rock and roll industry and world is, is pretty intense. And there's probably a lot going on that you're exposed to. How did you start to bridge that gap between the time on your mat that you're speaking of or speaking of, where you found that stillness and bringing that more and more into the times that you were out in your.<br><br>your rock and roll career.<br><br>Clementine Moss (26:52.354)<br>Hmm. I think it was really just time and practice spent. And, you know, I have to say that the Vipassana technique of meditation, you know, which I've been doing for 30 years is. Was a great gift because it really focuses, you know, it's insight meditation. So it really focuses on.<br><br>on watching our attachments and aversions. And what that does is it creates a distance and a space between my thought and my reaction.<br><br>And in that it starts to become apparent that I am not my thoughts. My thoughts are rising up because of my history, my DNA. They're rising up like physiological events in my body almost. And there is no controlling them. There is just watching my reaction to them. And when I, when I started getting that kind of distance, then<br><br>I get that kind of distance in my daily life. It's like, whoa, like, where did that come from? Or, wow, that's interesting, this feeling that's coming up. And at the same time that I feel like I'm really connected to the moments, you know, when you have that kind of insight.<br><br>practice all the time, your moments start to become more and more focused, I feel. And I really started to understand, or at least to be able to witness very clearly in the middle of chaos how I was reacting, how I was being thrown around by the things going on in me. And I think that that's really what you were speaking to before about being able to, you<br><br>Clementine Moss (28:56.287)<br>be present in your moments, being able to witness what's happening and yet not having that take you out of.<br><br>the moment. And when we see how things like hatred, judgment, anger, when we're really pinpointed in on our experience of these things and we see how it makes us feel, I think that it becomes easier and easier. I, you know, I've been in groups of peoples.<br><br>talking smack about somebody else, you know, somebody who's been behaving badly or doing something wrong. And unfortunately, I feel how it makes me feel to contribute to that conversation and I'm like, ah.<br><br>darn it, it's taking all the fun away of like, you know, getting in that circle of bad mouthing someone. You can feel the, like you said, there's like a vibration, there's like an energy, there's some kind of high from it and yet ultimately it's like, it feels like I've been watching too much TV or something, like I get that sick feeling, you know, and so you start to really notice, I think you just start to notice, you start to notice what's happening within our within our being.<br><br>Alara Sage (29:58.57)<br>The high. Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (30:07.606)<br>Yes.<br><br>Clementine Moss (30:20.564)<br>when we're in the world that way.<br><br>Alara Sage (30:24.946)<br>Yeah, I love how you say that. Cause yeah, it can be a high, but then ultimately it actually doesn't feel good. And if you're really tuned in to your body and in that present moment, kind of beyond the feeling of that initial like high, it actually feels like you said, the gross in the stomach. I had this conversation with my boys the other day because, you know, they're um, eight and 10 and so they're at this age of like, Oh, he did this and he did this and I'm just like, no, we're not going to blame each other.<br><br>take responsibility for what you did. Like, and that's it, period, stop. Like that's the end of the, you know, that's where your responsibility is, is not blaming the other. And the other day they started in on it. And you know, how many times I've come, conversed with them about blame and I've talked to my clients about blame, but for whatever reason, I really felt the energy in that moment of just the sucking.<br><br>Clementine Moss (30:56.578)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (31:19.646)<br>You know how blame blaming others is just a sucking of our power. Like it just drains. And I was just listening to them blame each other and I was just feeling it. And I had both of them stop. And I said, just stop for a moment and just breathe. They just tell me, how do you feel right now? Right? Like what, what's, what are you feeling in your body? And, and they were just, yeah, they didn't feel good. Right. At all. And then, you know, the next time that they were like doing something positive to each other, I was like, okay, now stop.<br><br>Clementine Moss (31:48.469)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (31:48.714)<br>What do you feel in your body? Right? And they're like, oh, this feels so good. They got big wide grins because they did something for their brother and they're just, and they're lit up. And I'm like, so notice that, right? Notice how that feels. And then notice what blaming feels like in your body. And note that. Like, consciously note what that feels like. Because I think that's our powerful teacher, right? Just like you said, is how does it feel? And then you start to catch yourself even more subtly, don't you?<br><br>Clementine Moss (32:10.439)<br>It is.<br><br>Clementine Moss (32:13.686)<br>How does it feel?<br><br>Clementine Moss (32:17.406)<br>Yeah, yeah, totally. And I look around at people who are behaving badly in our worlds and I think...<br><br>Oh, they must feel awful. They just must feel terrible, you know, all the time. Like my heart goes out to that. Just the physical feeling of retribution or fear mongering or it's, you know, dividing or take like greed, all of those things like, oh, man. And and that's a superpower, I think, to be to feel good within ourselves. It's a superpower.<br><br>Alara Sage (32:27.424)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Clementine Moss (32:56.383)<br>And I wish for that for other people, that they could feel.<br><br>they could be tapped into how what they, it's almost like an echo that comes back when you speak out, you know, speak negativity. It's like the negativity just washes over you, you know? It doesn't leave you, it just washes over you as you're saying it and yeah, it's a...<br><br>I think that's kind of, that's where practices like yoga, I think, really do, you know, connect people to that as well. You know, there are so many ways into this, these realizations. Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (33:38.718)<br>Was there ever like a fun memory that you have and may or may not? You don't have to have one, but was there ever a fun memory where you were just in, you know, in your drumming and rock and roll side of your life, just like, really like, wow, I'm so grateful that I have my spiritual practice because of what just happened. I'm just curious.<br><br>Clementine Moss (34:00.404)<br>Mmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (34:03.702)<br>Well, just to be in gratitude for my life is powerful. Just to have gotten over a lot of the negative internal.<br><br>voices. That's been really huge for me. And then to be on stage and to share moments that feel like a real oneness. That music is connecting people in this real, this one moment in the<br><br>in the place. You know, I've had profound feelings of connection with all that are in the room at that time, and it's music that connects us.<br><br>I remember feeling during the pandemic, like, I feel like it would be like to lose those spaces that we can gather in and just be together with our molecules vibrating is so powerful. So yeah, I'm really grateful for music for that. I think it's very powerful. Yeah.<br><br>And I'm always grateful for all of the, you know, all of the internal walking around that I've done in my life, because I struggled, you know, I really did, you know, struggle through some really painful times in my life where I really didn't know who I was, why I was here, why I should be here. And...<br><br>Clementine Moss (35:53.882)<br>And to be out of that for so long feels like the great gift of the practice. Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (36:06.354)<br>I think sometimes, you know, particularly with the very successful artists, whether they're musicians or, you know, artists, creative artists or, you know, actors and actresses, we believe that they don't struggle from some of these, uh, belief structures of inadequacy or unworthiness, you know, and, um,<br><br>It's not true, right? It's humanity that holds these, and we all have to face that within ourself. And I think when we bring the spiritual practices into music and into acting and all of these, this is where I think it's really exciting, the transformation that could potentially exist.<br><br>Clementine Moss (36:54.711)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (36:55.422)<br>as more and more of these beautiful artists that have such incredible gifts like yourself, connect deeper to their heart and to their true self and thus are able to really allow that magnificence through them. And not just in portions or just in moments or in sometimes, like always, right? Because that's our power is that indefinite that.<br><br>Clementine Moss (37:18.652)<br>Mm.<br><br>Alara Sage (37:23.206)<br>indestructible, that inexhaustible emanation of love. You know, to have those people that we, that so much of humanity looks to in times of desperation. You know, musicians are, they hold such a key to humanity because they are sought after when people are in pain. People go to music. Cause like you said, it unites us, right? And...<br><br>Clementine Moss (37:37.448)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (37:46.476)<br>Mmm. Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (37:51.886)<br>as we move through the spiritual journey that we're all on and musicians like yourself bring through more of their divinity it's really exciting to me to see what will happen in the world of music and just in the world of performing and how that will really assist in transforming humanity.<br><br>Clementine Moss (38:11.59)<br>Yeah, yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think that...<br><br>You know, my teacher of the shamanic counseling model, Isa Gutiarty, often says, you know, your life force is your creative force. And so the more that we can allow for our nature, our life force to be cleared out from all of the blocks that we've had set in front of it, the more that our creative power flows.<br><br>Alara Sage (38:29.932)<br>Yes.<br><br>Clementine Moss (38:48.473)<br>And for all that art does for the world, there are so many that are creatively motivated to create businesses that help people and to create, to build a bridge, to do these things that are essential for the benefit of our life. And I do love thinking about that creative life force.<br><br>ruled by enthusiasm. You know some of us are enthusiastic about creating art and some are enthusiastic about doing accounting and yet it's like that is our creative life force.<br><br>And I think it's really, you know, to really ask ourselves, why do I say that I'm not a creative person? You know, I meet people who say, oh, I don't have anything creative about me. And yet they're raising wonderful children, or they're, you know, doing these things. That is creativity.<br><br>And then going back to the art and the music, yeah, I think it's pretty remarkable to have somebody like Bach, who never even owned his, like never said that his music was his. You know, he said, I'm just a channel for this coming through. This is not mine.<br><br>And I love that idea as well that a true artist is someone who is able to let through the light of the divine in what they're doing. And they're getting out of the way. I like that idea.<br><br>Alara Sage (40:35.526)<br>Yeah, and for some reason when you say that I really you know, I'm connecting to the Like I said, I feel like all humans hold the energy of unworthiness and inadequacy, but there's a You know a holy burden I would call it to bring forth things into the public right and to really Bring your gifts into the public in a channeled manner<br><br>Because I think when they're like, for instance, Bach, you know, that is just so magnificent. It can really trigger those real beliefs of unworthiness. Like who am I to bring forth this magnificence? And.<br><br>Clementine Moss (41:14.699)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (41:18.09)<br>And it doesn't have to be, you know, just the performers or just the, you know, the very, very popular or the masterpieces, we all go through this. But I think that they're the ones that we get to see that reflection in, you know? I think they're the ones that we get to be like, wow, that music is amazing. And again, that person, even though they channeled this just masterpiece, that person too.<br><br>Clementine Moss (41:22.891)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (41:30.432)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (41:42.358)<br>dealt with unworthiness and inadequacy. And so they gift us the opportunity of that reflection that for one, it's totally normal. And two, that's that bridge, right? That's the understanding that we are divine, even in our humanity, and we have to bring it through and own it, not as in like, this is my power, and this is me, and it's all about me. But like, in that I was the channel that brought that through, I allowed it through.<br><br>Clementine Moss (42:04.519)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (42:11.786)<br>Because that's my gift, right? That's what I want to give to the world. And when we do that from a context of service, when we do that of a context of wanting to give it, it's deeply profound and transformational for ourselves. I have a big bear drum that came to me, because I also do shamanic work. And I wasn't looking for a drum. I've always wanted a bear drum, but I wasn't looking for a drum in the moment. She came to me. She insisted I buy her.<br><br>Clementine Moss (42:13.655)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (42:21.687)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Clementine Moss (42:29.166)<br>Mm-hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (42:41.498)<br>I had been drumming for several years shamanically. Oh my God, if she didn't take me on a journey of inadequacy. I was like, who am I to have this drum and to be using it? I would play her and then I'd have to put her down because I'd just be so overwhelmed with just the crippling feeling of inadequacy. And I was just in a room by myself. So it's just so powerful when we're in these spaces of creative expression, like you were saying.<br><br>Clementine Moss (42:46.498)<br>Hmm<br><br>Clementine Moss (42:56.77)<br>Wow.<br><br>Clementine Moss (43:03.063)<br>Wow.<br><br>Alara Sage (43:10.402)<br>creative life force energy and allowing that through us without judgment, right? Cause it doesn't have to sound good. You could beat a drum and if you're connecting to the drum and it's feeling good, right, there's, there's a harmony between you and the drum. Who cares what it sounds like, but, but we judge it, don't we? And we, um, shame ourselves.<br><br>Clementine Moss (43:27.722)<br>Yeah, everything. Oh, I remember thinking, oh my gosh, everything is a judgment. Everything in my mind is a judgment. When I started looking at my thoughts, everything was a judgment. It was a judgment about how this moment is different and not as good or better than any other moment. Like I'm never here. I'm always judging every moment, every experience against something that happened or something that I wish would happen. And everything is a judgment. And<br><br>Alara Sage (43:35.916)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Clementine Moss (43:58.094)<br>Now, you know, there's something different between judgment and discernment, right? So when you're an artist, it's very important to be discerning in your art. There's a craft to art, right? Just as there's a craft to accounting. There's a craft. And I think that it's important to be in our discernment without being overly judgmental. Without being judgmental. And that's a...<br><br>delicate balance that we all walk and it's kind of the way that we You know, we kind of see have to see ourselves like okay. I'm in the world. I'm creating I'm I don't want to judge myself as being unworthy or unable to do it and yet I want to know that I'm at all points trying to open myself to do to allow what I'm doing to be the best that I have, you know to<br><br>to put all my focus, to put all my attention, all my enthusiasm into it. And so that I feel like whatever happens with it is OK. And there's another thing, too, about just looking at the ways that we accept the goalposts. Like, I'm only successful if I meet that goal.<br><br>Whose goal is that? Is that my goal? Is that somebody else's goal? Is that the culture's goal that has set me? What if the goal that I'm seeking is on that side of the field? Like, what if there is no goal? What if the goal is just in the doing? And so, you know, having those conversations with us, I think we accept a lot of limitations and we all do it. I do it a lot. You know, I'm...<br><br>I'm not worthy unless I'm this weight, or I'm not worthy unless I live in this place, or do this for a job, or it's like we have all of this stuff that's just piled on us, and a lot of these practices, I think, can help us start to dismantle that. And then we get to, again, just move with enthusiasm. What if there is no goal here? What if the doing is it? What if it's just my...<br><br>Clementine Moss (46:18.727)<br>expression as an incarnated being and it feels like what I'm supposed to be doing in this moment.<br><br>Alara Sage (46:29.162)<br>Yes, I love that so much. Yes, yes, yes. Hire yourself last year was just like, you know, just told me just create, just create and create it, let it drop on its face, create it, let it be received, create it, just create it with no expectation of anything other than the joy of what is lighting me up in this moment. Create that and that's it. And it's just the pleasure, the joy.<br><br>Clementine Moss (46:50.475)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (46:52.766)<br>of our passion, right? And allowing, you use the word enthusiasm, I use the word passion, like letting that passion through us and like the pleasure of that feeling, because it's very, very pleasurable. It's a pleasurable thing to feel that creative life force energy moving in us.<br><br>Clementine Moss (47:01.973)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Clementine Moss (47:07.87)<br>It is, it is, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so my book is from Bonham to Buddha and Back. John Bonham is the drummer in Led Zeppelin. I've been playing his music for a while, so he kind of represents my music, you know, my drumming career. So it's from Bonham to Buddha and Back, the Slow Enlightenment of the Hard Rock Drummer. And...<br><br>Alara Sage (47:12.906)<br>And I know you have a book, is that correct?<br><br>Clementine Moss (47:35.69)<br>You know, it started off as pieces talking about what we've been speaking about today, about, you know, what it's like to be somebody who's really passionate about contemplative practice and what that looks like when I have to go play a rock and roll show and all of the things, you know, all of the barriers that are put up in front of my expression. And so there are little pieces in the book. It is a memoir.<br><br>stories about how I came to decide to be a drummer when I was 27 years old and kind of what I was doing about that. There's another theme in the book around my father. My father died right around the time that I started playing drums, so he never really got to see me play or knew that this was the path that I had taken. And he was really a music lover, would have been a big music fan of what I was doing.<br><br>doing so there's some conversation about some of that unresolved stuff and it's a love story to drums you know just drums period yeah i'm excited i want i want to i want to see your drum i want to i'm very excited when you said you had the drum yeah okay yeah let's see it<br><br>Alara Sage (48:50.334)<br>I love drums so much. They've always been there.<br><br>Alara Sage (48:56.114)<br>Oh, I can show her to you. Yeah, she's right here.<br><br>Clementine Moss (49:01.967)<br>Oh wow, it's big. It's beautiful. Oh, gorgeous.<br><br>Alara Sage (49:02.914)<br>She's my bear.<br><br>Alara Sage (49:06.574)<br>Yeah, and she was reverse created by a man. He said he had two last bear hides. He wasn't going to make bear anymore. And this hide told him to do it reverse. So she's opposite of how it's normally placed. And she was birthed on 2222. So.<br><br>Clementine Moss (49:27.982)<br>Gosh.<br><br>Alara Sage (49:29.214)<br>Yeah, she has a wonderful sound, deep, deep sound. She's so powerful and she takes me just deep down into the earth and just brings up this very powerful ma energy. I, every time I play her, I just feel so honored and in awe of her. So, um, I am a vague drum lover as well.<br><br>Clementine Moss (49:50.906)<br>Yeah, that's wonderful. You know, there's this book called When the Drummers Were Women, and it's about the history of the frame drum and how far it goes back and how indeed, you know, the drummers in most shamanic cultures were women for, you know, centuries. And they were played, it was played during childbirth.<br><br>Alara Sage (49:59.894)<br>Yes!<br><br>Clementine Moss (50:18.274)<br>played during religious or spiritual ceremonies. So yeah, it's a beautiful book.<br><br>Alara Sage (50:26.434)<br>Mm. Yay us women. So my love, how can people find you? Or is there anything you want people to know about you?<br><br>Clementine Moss (50:29.13)<br>hahahaha<br><br>Clementine Moss (50:39.526)<br>Yeah, my so the hub of Clem is clemthegreat.com. That has my music stuff, a link to the spiritual counseling page and yeah, and the writing, the book as well. The book's on Amazon and I read it as well as an audible book. So yeah, that's it, Clem the Great.<br><br>Alara Sage (51:07.106)<br>I think that's always nice when the authors read their own books because it's the voice, you know The voice can be so powerful<br><br>Clementine Moss (51:12.274)<br>I love that. I love it. I always have a book going in my head. I'm very excited because Barbara Streisand, you can tell I'm a big Barbara Streisand fan, but I don't know if you can see the poster behind me, but I'm just about to dive into her 47-hour audio book, so I'm very excited. Yeah, it's great.<br><br>Alara Sage (51:32.81)<br>And are you doing like live, are you on the road at all? Do you play live?<br><br>Clementine Moss (51:38.034)<br>Yeah, we tend to do about two weekends a month, like six shows or so a month. This month I actually have off. My next show will be in Alaska in the beginning of February. And then Chicago area, I think. Yeah, all over. We're always bopping around. Yeah.<br><br>Alara Sage (52:06.674)<br>So fun. And any plans in the future to combine maybe a music event with a spiritual event? I'm just curious.<br><br>Clementine Moss (52:16.27)<br>Yeah, you know, I've never, I've never done anything like that before. I have been, you know, I'm a songwriter as well, and I have been really trying to, you know, in my songwriting, more and more, I feel like I open to.<br><br>kind of getting out of the way of it, letting it kind of come through, which is always difficult. We have that judgmental part of ourselves, but I kind of love the idea of writing to the divine ultimately. And so that's a little part that I've been exploring.<br><br>in a little way. But yeah, as far as an event and spiritual event, yeah, it sounds fun. Who knows? Maybe it's on the horizon. Yeah, right, right. All right. Alara said Sage said I was going to be doing this. So there you go.<br><br>Alara Sage (53:16.73)<br>Maybe planting the seed right now. I feel like.<br><br>Alara Sage (53:26.775)<br>Yeah, I felt like that's why I wanted to come through. Wonderful. Yes. Thank you so much, my love, for being on here. It was just really wonderful to hear your journey and your processes and the inspiration that you bring forward.<br><br>Clementine Moss (53:28.863)<br>Yeah, right.<br><br>Clementine Moss (53:42.53)<br>Thank you so much. Thank you. It was really an honor to speak with you. Thank you.<br><br>Alara Sage (53:49.554)<br>And to all of the fellow extaqs, definitely check Clementine out and get her book and listen to her music and maybe go to her events if it's in the area or maybe even travel to them. Be sure to support her and to share this episode with others so that others can learn more about how to bridge this gap between their spiritual life and whatever that.<br><br>other life that other part of themselves is. As we talk this is such an important part of our process here as humanity and this is each and every one of our own responsibilities. Thank you so much for being here with us today and I love you all so very much.<br><br>Alara Sage (54:36.798)<br>my thing is all the way down here.<br><br><br></p>
