Episode Transcript
<p><!--block-->Alara Sage (00:00.572)<br>Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Ecstatic Woman podcast, where we activate and inspire women in their power, in their authenticity, and in their bliss. I'm your host, Alara Sage. My beloveds, you know, I have a really strong mind and I've had to learn how to slow my brainwaves. I've had to learn how to recognize my thoughts and really ask myself,<br><br>if those thoughts are serving myself. I've had to learn how to focus my attention and intention so that I can create the reality I desire. Our minds are so powerful. They are incredible. And what if they're the most important tool both in your physical reality and perhaps in your ascension and enlightenment. We're going to dive deep into this conversation today with our beloved guest,<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, she is a PhD, and she's a certified mindset coach, a complexity scientist, which I'm intrigued by that, and she's a systematic leadership expert. She mentors women activists fighting for social justice throughout Latin America. Virginia, my love, welcome so much to the show.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (01:19.586)<br>Thank you, Alain, such a pleasure to be here.<br><br>Alara Sage (01:23.466)<br>One of the things I really just was just, ah, this is so delicious. When Virginia and I were first connecting was she said, this was her statement that she could be, and she realized this, she could be the scientist and the witch simultaneously. So Virginia, let's talk about that. What did you mean by that statement?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (01:47.17)<br>What actually was not my original statement was my spouse actually that he said you're a scientist witch because I'm very intuitive and very spiritual in my own way, so I I don't necessarily practice or follow one specific school or Religion or anything like that, but I have a very strong intuition<br><br>And I read energy and I can actually see energy in other people. I mean, physically see it when, especially when it's a strong negative energy that is causing a lot of pain. But at the same time, I have a very scientist mind. So my heart is the witch and my intuition, my gut is the witch and my brain is the scientist. I did my doctor program. I've been a nerd my whole life. I'm always learning something new, challenging myself. I'm, I have this.<br><br>what I call the, the healthiest skeptic mind, you know, that skeptical mind, meaning that I'm questioning everything, especially myself and not myself, my thoughts and my stories. So I have that kind of a skepticism that allows me to, to really challenge and see reality in multiple dimensions and multiple ways and from multiple perspectives all the time. And.<br><br>At the same time, I really trust that my intuition is 99 .9 % right all the time. So it's like, if there is a conflict, I know who to follow in that. And I'm because, you know, because of my scientist mind and because of my education, my background, I am really good at creating a strong.<br><br>Alara Sage (03:27.722)<br>I love that.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (03:38.818)<br>arguments, very convincing arguments in my head about what things should be or what should I do or how should I feel, why or whatever. And sometimes that doesn't match with what my body and my heart is telling me. And in spite of being, having such a strong mind, I said like, well, the witch is the one that has the wisdom. The brain has the knowledge.<br><br>Alara Sage (04:02.954)<br>Mmm. I love that. The witch is the one that has the wisdom. Yes. And so was there a point in your life where you experienced more of a clash in yourself between these two?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (04:15.426)<br>Huh, there's so many times, all the time, mostly, I think, when it comes to life decisions, things that, you know, big decisions that will shape the rest of my life or the next phase of my life and in relationships. I mean, and I have to say this, I grew up in a very patriarchal society with a very patriarchal family.<br><br>And, you know, because of that ideology or that paradigm, women, we are being socialized to doubt ourselves, to lose our self -esteem, to define our self -value based on how much we serve and we please others. And I grew up with a lot of somehow emotional...<br><br>techniques for manipulation and controlling my behavior. And all of them were very rational. Everything, especially when you're a kid and you're, the adults in your life tells you, well, but you know what that makes me feel, or you should not be doing this because, you know, you should not establish boundaries for yourself. You should not protect yourself. You should always sacrifice yourself for others, for the good of others. You're...<br><br>thoughts and your emotions don't matter that much. I mean, and they explain it why, and they explain it in a way that is so clear and convincing and logical and rational that it's easy to believe that. So, but there is a voice, there was a voice, even that early in my life, that voice that says, this is not right. I cannot explain it so eloquently, you know, with those fancy words they're using.<br><br>to explain why they are not right and this is not right for me or in general, but I couldn't explain it. And so I had to learn to really listen to that voice that couldn't explain itself that well in spite of all the beautifully crafted rational, logical.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (06:35.86)<br>manipulative arguments that I was receiving from the outside. And I think that in relationship is where I learned the most when the wisdom, when, when to listen to my wisdom and when to listen to my mind instead.<br><br>Alara Sage (06:50.09)<br>Hmm. I love how you say that because oftentimes when that wisdom, that intuition, I also say it speak a lot to the higher self is coming through in some sort of opposition of the logic or what we've been taught or what others are saying, right? We can't always describe it or define it or understand it. Like we don't always know.<br><br>the full information, we're not always privy. We're not always given exactly why we should follow that particular path and not the logical path. So we have to trust more. We have to just allow for ourselves to experience that even though we don't have this eloquent description or definition as to why this is the way that you should go.<br><br>And I think that's a really important, uh, differentiation, right? Between sure. The logical mind is, is because it's so logic, it can often give you bullet points. This is why you should do this, right? Whereas intuition, wisdom, higher self doesn't always grant us that detail because part of it in my experience, and I love to hear yours is that we are asked to trust.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (08:07.778)<br>Yeah, and the other times that it happened has also to do with the relationship one way or the other, but later in life has been as a leader. I mean, as a woman leader, social leader, political leader, but also entrepreneur, you know, business leader. It happened that again, we come from a school. I mean, our society has.<br><br>A paradigm about leadership that is very masculine, that is very top down, linear thinking. You follow by, you know, you do the things by the book. Marketing is highly manipulative and it's like a massive gaslighting really strategy. And, and that to lead people, especially because I start holding leadership positions when I was very young. So I was a woman, a woman, and I was very young to this advantage in leadership.<br><br>And most of the people at that time, I remember the most important leadership position that I have when I was about 21, I have 72 people under my, you know, supervision, if you want to, or my responsibility. And many of them were at least 20 years older than me. And most of them were men. So I was facing the challenge of earning the respect of them that they were.<br><br>expert in their field and they knew what they, you know, how things are done and we do things this way. We don't do things your way. That's crazy. That's never going to work. I have to deal with a lot of those answers and who you think you are and you're too young to know you're not, you know, those answers. And for me was I had to face the choice that either I follow the books and I go to other men.<br><br>older men to tell me how to become a leader and lead like a man so I've been respected and followed and you know I can actually implement not just my vision but what I was there to do my responsibility or should I do it my way in spite of everything that was against me everything that was telling me you're gonna fail at that and I realized that I would<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (10:28.962)<br>I was just not going to succeed doing it their way because that was against values. I believed in democracy. I believed in inclusion. I believe in diversity. I believe that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I believe that many minds can think and be more creative and intelligent than one, no matter how many studies you have and how smart you think you are.<br><br>I believed in perspectives. I believed that, you know, that my main role as the leader is to have great questions and not to have all the answers. So because I believe on all that, all the advice on how to become the great leader that men were, you know, other men were self -proclaimed they were, because I was not necessarily agreeing with them, but.<br><br>You know, like if you want to be a great leader like me, you should do this. I was like, let's discuss the great leader part first, right? And then discussing how to. So I started doing it my way and it took maybe longer and it, it, it creates a lot of tension for a period of time of other people just recognizing that could be a different way and maybe even a better way for, for that group, at least for that community.<br><br>But at the end, they start seeing the results of having a different kind of leadership. And it took me several months and a lot of crying and a lot of self -doubting and a lot of questioning to stay true to myself and my belief and that that wisdom that this is the right way. This is the right thing to do this. In spite of that self -doubt to stay in my path and say, like, I'm going to do it.<br><br>until to the end, you know, I'm going to follow that intuition and follow that wisdom, even if I cannot explain it, even if it goes against the books and against the experts advice. And I did, and it was extremely successful, not just the product, but also the kind of environment and the team that we build and the connection within the team and how everybody really gave, you know, everybody worked from the higher self and they gave more than their best.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (12:53.026)<br>to make the project to succeed, partly because of that kind of leadership that I developed with, not just my leadership, but how I help other people to develop and how to empower the emerging leadership within the team. That makes a huge difference. So that's another times when in leadership I have to face that conflict and choose to follow what I think is the wise thing to do.<br><br>not necessarily the proof, you know, the proven.<br><br>Alara Sage (13:25.93)<br>Mm -hmm. Yes. And so it sounds very much like you were following your intuition and following that real wisdom of your being. So how did mindset come into that? Where did you, from following your intuition, following that wisdom, going against, you know, the grain outside of the box, all the different ways that we can say this, really being a trailblazer in the leadership realm, where did you bump up against?<br><br>mindset, where did mindset become really important in that endeavor?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (13:59.234)<br>Well, I think that there was a moment, especially when I was doing my doctorate program, there was two big lessons that I learned that helped me understand what my mind work was, what my brain job was and why. Yeah. The one thing was with understanding, getting<br><br>Alara Sage (14:18.696)<br>Your brain job. I love that.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (14:27.68)<br>uh, familiar with complexity science and how system work. He helped me understand that we cannot, I mean, that the world is really complex and it's unpredictable and uncontrollable. And we cannot really control any of the parts. We cannot control humans. We cannot control their behaviors. We cannot control what they think or what they do or what they feel. We can try to manipulate them, but at the end.<br><br>Is their choice. We're not going to be able to actually force them to do what we want to do it all the time, especially. And, you know, being aware of that, I realized my own autonomy in that way too. Say like, nobody can really control me. No matter what they do, I always have the choice. I always can choose what I want to do, how I'm going to feel, how I'm, what I'm going to think and how I'm going to behave. And the other part was when I.<br><br>I started studying the brain and neuroscience and how a mindset and how it works. And I realized, and this is the most beautiful and painful lesson I have. I realized that the brain really is. It's complex. And at the same time, it's very simple. A big part of our brain, their main job is to keep us alive. And it will do whatever it takes to keep us alive.<br><br>And that means the main strategies that the brain use to keep me alive, my brain and everybody's brain use to keep us alive is by avoiding pain, real or imaginary pain. And that includes any possible, maybe who knows if it's gonna happen, risk of receiving any kind of discomfort.<br><br>Alara Sage (16:14.41)<br>Ha ha ha ha ha!<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (16:20.13)<br>Because the brain didn't evolve that much. I mean, when we were in the cave, in the caves, obviously that makes sense, right? That the brain says like, wait, if we suffer pain, we're going to die because the pain comes from a wound that a dinosaur or, you know, like whatever animal did on us and we're bleeding to death and that pain means death. But now the brain doesn't distinguish from that pain and the pain of<br><br>I'm going to be humiliated if I speak in public or if I go to a podcast. It's like the brain think pain is pain and we're all going to die and we're going to die really fast. And actually we're going to die. Our children are going to die first and we're going to see them and then we're going to die. I mean, it's so catastrophic because it's trying to keep us alive in the times of the cave. That makes sense that the brain will be so catastrophic.<br><br>for us to avoid pain because it will save our life. But now it's just stopping us from doing things that we know that we need to do in order to evolve and to grow. Every, I mean, we call it groin pains during the adolescence because actually hurts to grow, you know, like the muscles and the bones and then they grow so fast that it is painful. So any process of groin implies some level of discomfort, but the brain hate that because...<br><br>it doesn't make the distinction. So the brain says, okay, I have three jobs. One to keep you alive. One is to avoid pain, risk, anything that might sounds a little bit like discomfort, let's prevent it altogether. Just breathe and stay in your cave. The second one is to seek pleasure. And at that time, again, in the caves, makes sense because we got pleasure in that time there were two main source, sex and food.<br><br>And obviously we need both to stay alive and to keep the species alive. So that makes sense. It's like sick for pleasure and avoid pain. All right. But now pleasure is comfort. Pleasure is a lot of sugar. It's a lot of Netflix. It's a lot of scrolling the social media. It's a lot of losing your mind on the internet. It's a lot of, you know, getting immediate rewards. All of that also gives the same pleasure, but...<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (18:43.554)<br>the brain doesn't make the distinction. The only thing is like, oh, I want to, I need pleasure. Let's get as much pleasure as we want. Let's avoid all discomfort and pain. And the third one is save energy, optimize everything, you know, like make everything on autopilot. Just the minimum effort rule. And that is because back in the caves, you eat today, but you didn't know when you're going to.<br><br>eat again, so you need to save your calories. Right now we have excess calories, little effort, and we don't need that rule anymore. But the minimum effort, what it does, that rule for the brain is like, let's do the minimum effort, is that anything that requires growing requires an effort, let's avoid it. And also it means that I'm gonna just get a lesson, understand what it is,<br><br>put it in automatic pilot so you don't have to think about it ever again. And that includes all the beliefs, all the mistaken ideas that we learned when we were kids and later on in life, we put it in a drawer and we never check them back. And for me, all that accumulation of limiting belief, preconception ideas, biases that we have, internalized...<br><br>internalized oppression that we do to ourselves and we do to others. All that went straight to a drawer that we never check. And it's like having a very stinky sock at the end of the closet. We keep using the, you know, the shirts that are right there available. We wear them, we wash them, we put them back and we never go back in the closet to find out what is the thing that is stinking so much.<br><br>Alara Sage (20:22.684)<br>Ha ha!<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (20:38.594)<br>So when I find, when I understood that the brain, the only thing that is doing is trying to keep me alive and by doing those things, I realized that that part of my brain, I'm very grateful for it because I'm here because of that. It's the same part of the brain that tells me to look both sides of the street before crossing the street. So a car will not kill me. It's like, be cautious. Let's assume everything is a threat. You know, like let's, let's be a little catastrophic and paranoid.<br><br>Alara Sage (20:59.882)<br>Yes.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (21:08.514)<br>Yes, it works for some things like crossing the street, but for most things, that brain is really not that useful to me in that sense, because I can keep myself alive without following those rules in a way, in a strict way. I can, I have another part of the brain that is the whole one that actually can think about what that brain is thinking and make a decision if that...<br><br>thought is actually useful or is not useful. And so I learned how to use it. That's why I really, as a high achiever that I am, and I have done a lot of what people will consider impossible things to achieve, impossible goals. For me, I said that my ultimate achievement, and I think that the human ultimate achievement,<br><br>It's not the billion dollars. It's not to go to the moon. It's like, we can do those things. They're not that impossible. The ultimate achievement is to master your mind. Because if you master your mind, if you understand how your brain works and you are back in control, instead of the brain controlling you, you say like, okay, brain, this is what we're gonna do. Thank you for the warning. I'm gonna make the decision if...<br><br>If I can go outside without getting a pneumonia, just because it's, you know, a little rainy, probably not. It's like, I can do this. I can speak in public. I can be on a podcast. I can write a book. I can launch a company. I can, I can do all those things. I'm not going to die. Even if I feel a lot of strong emotions, even if I feel extremely uncomfortable.<br><br>Alara Sage (22:46.218)<br>you<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (23:01.218)<br>My emotions are not going to kill me. A wound from an animal will kill me, but my emotions are not going to kill me. I can do this. I can deal with this. When you learn that and we, you learn to understand your ego and understand what is the purpose of your ego and understand what is the purpose of the brain that wants to keep you alive. And you are great grateful for that. But at the same time saying like, like you talk to a child is like,<br><br>Yes, love, I know that you don't want to eat broccoli. I know that you think that broccolis are poison, but I'm the adult here and I'm making the decision to feed you broccoli because it's good for you. And I'm going to eat it too. And we're going to do it together. And you're going to see that you're not going to die from broccoli. Then you're really in control of your life and you can achieve a lot of things with that.<br><br>Alara Sage (23:34.442)<br>Hahaha<br><br>Alara Sage (23:58.666)<br>Yeah, I love what you're speaking to. And to me, it's really about reprogramming our brain. Because while that primordial instinct of keeping ourselves safe will always be there, there's a big difference to how our brains really interact with our senses and with the subtle information fields from moving into a state of just we're just working off of our subconscious mind, the pre programming. And we are now more conscious and aware because what my experience is, is that.<br><br>When we're just working from the subconscious, the subconscious mind and the pre -programming, we're just really reacting a lot to life. And we're reacting a lot of times. We're not even really aware of why we're doing the things we're doing. And just as you said, we're reacting to that pain by pulling away from the pain, right? Seeking the pleasure. However, my experience with both myself and my clients is that when we start to shift and we start to truly embody...<br><br>those higher consciousness aspects of self, what tends to happen is our whole relationship with pain transforms. Pain in and of itself stops being something that you try to pull away from other than like literally placing your hand on a hot stove, right? That pain of emotion or that pain of potential like you spoke of, right? Like, oh my God, if you go out on this stage, all these people are gonna hate you and they're gonna throw tomatoes at you, right? And you know, who knows if that's gonna happen, right?<br><br>So that potential pain or that perceived experience actually becomes very invigorating and starts to become even ecstatic. And what I've learned is we can really sink down into those different senses that are the information really that's coming in, that's telling us that we can actually retrain our brain to perceive that information differently.<br><br>So what I see happens is that we stop even having fear around stepping outside of our comfort zone. It starts to become this space of, this is what I want. I want that feeling of expansion. I want that feeling of discomfort because I understand that. And our brain is even reacting to those new belief structures, right? Is that what you find as far as moving out of, you know, more of that primordial brain?<br><br>Alara Sage (26:22.506)<br>And I would call it into moving into higher consciousness and the embodiment of the higher self.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (26:27.938)<br>Yeah, and I totally get you and I agree with you. And I use the example of going to the gym, for instance, is when we understand where that perception of pain comes from, then we can decide if it's really that bad or actually something that you can look for. For instance, when we go to the gym and our legs start hurting, we're like, yes, it's working.<br><br>Alara Sage (26:47.792)<br>Yes.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (26:57.954)<br>I'm working, my muscles are growing, I'm becoming stronger. I welcome this pain. It isn't comfortable, but I welcome it. That's what I was looking for to feel. But we don't do that with other kinds of emotions. We believe that emotions happen to us, like from outside, like somebody drop an emotion on us or create that or make us feel something. And then we're afraid of that because we feel that it's not in us and we...<br><br>Alara Sage (27:08.36)<br>Mm -hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (27:19.11)<br>Yes.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (27:27.202)<br>We have no control over that. But if we see like, yes, I'm nervous about doing this, you know, this show or this presentation. I'm nervous because it matters. I'm nervous because it's important for me. I'm nervous because it's challenging me to do something that I haven't done before. Then you can feel the nervousness and it's not gonna be comfortable. But then you can embrace it. You can welcome it because...<br><br>Alara Sage (27:40.52)<br>Hmm.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (27:54.498)<br>You know that you're doing something that is going to get benefits for you. The same with the pain that you feel in your legs is something like, yes, it's not comfortable, but I so welcome that because this is why I'm here at the gym to feel this, to feel my muscles growing and getting stronger. So it's about, I agree, it's about retraining your brain, it's about reframing your experiences and especially...<br><br>Alara Sage (27:59.722)<br>Yes.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (28:23.008)<br>the way you experience emotions. So emotions are really signals for you or they're sign they're like, I said, like, like a fire alarm. The fact that it went off doesn't mean that you're dying on a fire. It's just like, Hey, pay attention to this. Check this out. Something's happening. Something's happening. Go check it out. That maybe it's just like,<br><br>Alara Sage (28:40.234)<br>Yes. Yes. Maybe there's something going on. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mm -hmm.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (28:47.33)<br>Oh, it really is. It was just a toast, you know, or maybe it's a fire and you need to run, but, but it's not the fire alarm is not gonna kill you. It's just like, check this out.<br><br>Alara Sage (28:50.954)<br>Mm -hmm.<br><br>Alara Sage (29:00.412)<br>Yes, yes, that's such an important thing to understand is that they are signals, right? They are flags, they are warnings, but the warning may or may not have relevance. And as you said, we may be wanting what the warning is telling us, right? Like, hey, this is a big deal. You're going out in front of a bunch of people, like I'm talking about, you know, speaking on stage, right? They're all gonna be watching you. Well, yes, that's what I want, right? I want to go out there and present myself in that way. But I find that we can even take it a step further.<br><br>So yes, there is the understanding that, okay, this is pain, this is uncomfortable, but I'm choosing to accept it and to experience it because I want to. But there's actually a shift that we can make where we actually experience the pain as pleasure. And this is something that I've been focusing with my mind on as where as soon as I feel any discomfort, whether that's physical discomfort, emotional discomfort, mental discomfort,<br><br>I learned to relax into it and I shift my mindset into pleasure and I experience that as pleasure. So I had this the other day in yoga where I was working my muscles, going back to the gym analogy and my muscles were beginning to hurt and have that lactic acid sensation. And I just reminded my body, no, this feels good, remember? And all of a sudden I was literally groaning and moaning with pain, with pleasure, sorry, not with pain.<br><br>And so it's always about how we perceive our reality, right? And I love how we're really showing the different steps and the different ways in which we can really step this up. And it really excites me because I don't think there's any limit to what we have as human potential. So if we can start to experience pain as pleasure, where is the roof on that, right? Where is the ceiling on that? So I want to ask you a question, bringing this back around. What do you find is...<br><br>one of the hardest belief structures for people to overcome with regards to their mind.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (31:03.714)<br>put two men by that.<br><br>Alara Sage (31:05.674)<br>Well, like when you're working with clients, what is that kind of that primary issue that you find with them learning how to master their mind?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (31:16.322)<br>I think the main resistance is to not see the connection between what we feel and what we think. And that what we think comes from a whole belief system that we've been accumulated and is part of now of our worldview. And we go by life thinking that what we see is just an observation of reality, meaning that we were a camera.<br><br>instead, and we are not a camera. We don't, we just don't perceive reality as it is. We perceive reality as we are. And to understand that and to understand that our brain, because of all the filters that we have accumulated through life and experiences and beliefs and all those things, perceive reality in certain way, reality as in what happened in the past, as what other people are saying, doing, or.<br><br>thinking or whatever, as events, as the context, we perceive reality with those filters and our brain that is an interpretation machine is trying to make sense of every single detail, conscious or unconscious. It's always right now, I know that part of my brain is listening to a dog that is barking three blocks from here. And it's probably part of my brain thinking that somebody's breaking into that house and you know, the word is not safe.<br><br>Part of my brain is doing that job. So, so when we are aware of that, that say like our brain is a making sense machine and is always interpreting every single input that we get through our sensors, everywhere and making, trying to make sense. But I said, it makes sense like a kaleidoscope. You remember that toy when.<br><br>I mean, I don't know you, but when I grew up, I actually make my own kaleidoscope. That is a tube that has a little bit of a bunch of like crystals inside of many colors and mirrors. And when you turn it around, it creates wonderful figures. They're really, what it is, is just three mirrors with a bunch of crystals inside or, you know, poppory or whatever inside that create those images. The...<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (33:35.442)<br>60 ,000, 70 ,000 thoughts that we produce every day are just a combination of the same crystals. It's just like, how about we combine them like this? How would we mix them like this? How would we organize them like this? What about this? What about that? And we go unaware of all the thoughts that are being produced in our head that actually are determining our reactions, the way we feel and the way we behave.<br><br>Because most of the time we believe them, not as image that our brain is putting together, ideas that our brain are putting together, sometimes in the most random way. I mean, sometimes in absurd ways, like dreams. But we believe them. We say like, oh, this is true because I think about it. I thought it and therefore it's true. Like I see something and therefore my interpretation of what I saw is real.<br><br>Alara Sage (34:33.514)<br>Yeah.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (34:33.698)<br>The same way we think that my thoughts are real and they're true and therefore I have to act on them. And when we don't know that difference, that our emotions are produced by our thoughts and that we react based on what we're feeling, not necessarily what we're thinking, but that they're so linked with each other that we just, it's a blurry.<br><br>picture, you know, like we just do what we do and we don't really know why. And then we justify it with, with our thoughts. Just to understand that process have make an incredible switch in, in, in my clients, in people's minds saying like, Oh, you know, the big aha moment is like, Oh, so I do this because I was feeling this and I was feeling this not because.<br><br>you said that or you did that. I was feeling this because I was thinking that what you did or what you said was bad for me. So it really has nothing to do with you. It's all about how I interpret what happened and how that made me feel. And then I react to that. And then I get the results I get and it's not because of you, it's because of what I did.<br><br>because the way I've reacted to that. So as you said, we live in reactive mode instead of acting mode or responsive mode. Responsive means that you actually think, you have the capacity to process all that, all of that information, your thoughts, your emotions, our information, and your previous behavior and your experience and say, look, okay, but now,<br><br>How do I want to respond to this situation that is happening? What will serve me best? What will serve my relationship best? My relationship with this person best or the future or everybody best? That's responsive is to have the capacity to make a little pause, can be even seconds when you practice hard and say like, how do I want to intentionally feel, think and respond?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (36:54.178)<br>to this. Understanding that part is really all it takes. After that is a lot of practice and, you know, dealing with reality that is constantly changing. But understanding that part and that giving, getting back, reclaiming that self agency or self efficacy sense is really most of the work.<br><br>Alara Sage (37:22.474)<br>Hmm. Yes, I love the pause, right? Because it always grants us that spaciousness to choose something else rather than our direct reaction that wants to come forward. And it's so interesting what you brought forward because it's true if anybody, any of the listeners have ever had one of those experiences where there's an interaction between you and another person and then you sit down and have a talk about it, right? Because something was misunderstood, right? Or something happened.<br><br>and you ask the person, you know, what did you experience or how are you feeling? And they say, well, you did this or this happened because, and you're like, wow, that was really not at all my intention or where I was actually moving from or why I did what I did. And it's so interesting, right? Because we'll see how they saw the situation from their filter or we can even be the one, right? That is seeing the situation from our filter and the other person says, no, actually.<br><br>You know, I'm sorry, but that wasn't my intention. I was doing this and you're like, oh, wow, that's not how I saw it, right? That's not how I experienced it. And so wonderfully how you put like, that's our responsibility. Another example is how, you know, several people in a room can see the same experience, the same event, and they all come back from it, describing it differently, right? Saying, well, this is what happened. And wow, you saw it that way. Like I saw it completely.<br><br>differently because we're all seeing that experience through the filters of our belief structures. And so I love what you're talking about with the pause, right? Because that pause gives us that opportunity to say, okay, I'm choosing right now. There's a part of me that wants to react from these beliefs. And what do I instead want to create in this experience, right? What do I want to create in this moment? And that's a very powerful, those pauses are so powerful. And<br><br>Yeah, initially they can be kind of like we have to remember to do the pause. Right?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (39:19.746)<br>It's funny because we have, I don't know where we learned this, but we have this notion, this belief that we have to respond immediately to everything. It's like somebody says something and I have to immediately say something, whatever, no matter what, whatever comes to my mouth. And I'm like, wait a second, what's the rush? Who's pushing me? I can't just...<br><br>breathe and say like, it's really a pleasure to see you too. It's nice meeting you. I have that second. Nobody's gonna punish me or give me a fine because I took a couple of seconds to really think the way I wanted to communicate with you and my words.<br><br>Alara Sage (39:55.646)<br>Yes.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (40:10.162)<br>Nobody ever, but we believe that especially when there is a discussion and it's getting heated, you know, like it's very intense or tension or whatever, that we have to be like the one who speak the fastest. And it's not, it's not true. Sometimes the less you say, as long as it's very intentional.<br><br>Alara Sage (40:17.29)<br>He didn't.<br><br>Alara Sage (40:29.866)<br>Ha ha!<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (40:40.418)<br>gets you farther in the relationship, in solving the conflict, in clarifying the misunderstanding. It's not about how much, how fast you talk, it's how meaningful and how thoughtful and how intentional you are with every word that you have, that you use. But we grew up with that idea that silence is a bad thing, even a second.<br><br>Alara Sage (41:04.49)<br>Yes. Yeah, we're really, humans are really uncomfortable with silence. It's kind of an interesting perspective, isn't it? Because I really enjoy silence. And so oftentimes I'll sit with people and I just enjoy silence and everybody's always like, oh, let's turn on some music or they'll start talking and they just are, you know, and it's like, oh, well, can't we just sit here in silence? And I really love that advice. I learned that.<br><br>through these kinds of interactions of first being a guest on a podcast. I would re -listen to the podcast episode after I guess it on it. And I thought, well, gee, you know, I could have said that. I could have responded even better. And I learned to pause and take that breath and allow the wisdom to speak rather than just the quick mind, right? So that's excellent, excellent advice. I have a kind of a fun question for you. What do you think is truly possible for the human mind?<br><br>And we're getting towards the end of our time here, but I wanted to throw this question out there.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (42:04.226)<br>What is truly I... Ah man. I...<br><br>I don't think, I don't know, but actually I don't think I want to know. You know, there is this element of, I still have a very childlike heart that I never want to stop wondering, you know, about things and about life. And the human mind for me is a wonderland. It's like what I've seen happening.<br><br>the radical change, the achievement of impossible goals and people around me that I work with, that I lead, that I coach, that, you know, my colleagues or people I admire, I'm always fascinated. And I was, I keep repeating myself, I hope I never know enough to stop being surprised by these kind of things. But I, what we know as humanity, we know that,<br><br>Alara Sage (43:03.848)<br>Mmm.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (43:08.866)<br>We're just starting to understand the power and the capacity of the human brain and the human mind. We're just starting. I mean, we have a hunch. We don't even have knowledge. We have a hunch of what is capable of, but we don't know. And I can, I'm not gonna live long enough to actually discover the whole thing, obviously, but I can wait to see.<br><br>to see what else we're capable of. But what I do know is that part of it is mechanical. I mean, there is part of it is not the mind, but the brain is an organ, is a muscle. And as anything that is mechanical, if we don't use it, and if we don't train it, and if we don't work on it, it won't evolve. And anything that gets, you know, that is stagnate, eventually,<br><br>disappear or die. So it's a living organ that we need to keep alive and we need to keep feeding it. And it's like a plant or like a child or like the human body. What we feed, that organ is gonna make it thrive or start getting sick and dying like any other living organism. So that much I know that we need to take care of it.<br><br>And it's not just physically, we need to take care of psychologically, emotionally, you know, in other ways with the things that we consume and the way we think and what we think about and, you know, how we rewire our brains so we, you know, we help it to overcome some of the wounds and create new path. I mean, that is a work that doesn't happen by itself. We have to put an effort on it.<br><br>But I would love to hear your answer to that question.<br><br>Alara Sage (45:05.706)<br>Well, it's intriguing to me because when I was really little, when I was like six years old, I was certain. I was absolutely certain. I remember these experiences super clear. I knew I could move objects with my mind. And so I would sit there and I'd stare at the object and I'd just be like, okay, move. And it wouldn't work. But there was a certainty in my being. And I know that humans have that capacity.<br><br>The other thing that I knew very strongly to be true is I loved candy bars as a kid. And I would go into my dream world and I would, um, lucid dream and I would find a candy bar in my dream world. And I would just say, okay, I'm bringing this back. I'm going to set the intention. I'm going to focus my mind. It was always about focusing my mind. I'm going to focus my mind and I'm going to bring it back into the physical reality. Again, there was absolute conviction in my being.<br><br>I had never seen or heard any of this outside of myself. It was from in here and it also didn't work. So I don't have some.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (46:10.274)<br>But you know, I have no doubt that you're right. I mean, if you, one thing that I believe is that if you're capable of seeing it, like visualize it and feel it and have that certainty about what your mind is capable of, it is capable of. The thing is that we probably doesn't have the skill yet or the tools yet to actually make it happen. But if you can visualize it and you have that level of convention.<br><br>Alara Sage (46:14.57)<br>Yes.<br><br>Alara Sage (46:21.256)<br>Yes.<br><br>Alara Sage (46:25.834)<br>Yes.<br><br>Alara Sage (46:29.962)<br>Yes.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (46:40.386)<br>conviction, I know it's capable. It's just, we don't know how yet. And I also believe in energy. And for instance, again, this was late in my life, but I started seeing the physical energy in some people. That didn't happen when I was a child. It happened after an experience that I had as an adult.<br><br>But I will never imagine that my brain was capable of seeing what is invisible really for most of us. And so I started seeing it. So something is not my eyes. So it's something in my brain that developed the skill of seeing something that is invisible to most people. And things like that, we kind of...<br><br>know what the mind is capable, but we don't believe it. And if we don't believe it, we're not going to develop the skills to make it happen. When we start believing something so powerfully, we're going to start working on the skills and eventually it's going to happen.<br><br>Alara Sage (47:31.112)<br>Yes.<br><br>Alara Sage (47:42.154)<br>Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. That really excites me, the potential of our mind and what we can really create and experience. And I just feel like there's so much potential of the mind, which is why I wanted to have you on the show and have this conversation. So my love, how can people find you? How can they reach out to you?<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (48:04.642)<br>Oh, you can find me on all the social media as Virginia Lacayo or as Massive, which is the coaching and advising company that I have that is to equip people, especially female leaders, to become history shapers, to shake the system, to create revolutions, to change the system they live in, and eventually to change history too. That's what we want. I think that women...<br><br>Alara Sage (48:21.992)<br>Mmm.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (48:33.954)<br>especially women that comes from self -identify, humans that self -identify as women that become from marginalized groups are gonna be the ones that change the world by changing the dynamic of power within it. I strongly believe that and that's the people I want to help because we already know we can identify systemic oppression and discrimination. We have a different relationship with power and we want to change it.<br><br>We just need to know how. So, good time.<br><br>Alara Sage (49:05.386)<br>Mm. I literally felt that truth and I felt your belief in it. So yes, yes, yes. That is delicious. I celebrate you. I celebrate you so much in all that you're doing and in making that belief 100 % a reality through your beliefs and your passion for it. Thank you so much for what you do, my love. And thank you so much for being on the show with us today.<br><br>Virginia Lacayo, Ph.D. (49:30.978)<br>Thank you, I learned a lot and love talking to you.<br><br>Alara Sage (49:35.114)<br>That was truly delight.<br><br>My fellow ecstatics, as always, I recommend that you share this episode, right? Our minds are so powerful. Everybody has a mind. That's the one thing about this, right? I mean, not everybody has a womb. Not everybody has, you know, these feminine organs, but everybody has a mind. And this is so imperative from my perspective to where we want to go as humans, overcoming this, reprogramming this, understanding and utilizing this, this.<br><br>the superpower that we have. So share this episode and even with the ones maybe who aren't so spiritual, right? Because this episode has a little bit more science -based to it and it can really invite them to expand and step outside of their comfort zones, but up against their limiting beliefs. And as always, reach out to Virginia, right? Reach out to her on social media and let's all get behind what she is creating. Let's all get behind massive.<br><br>Let's get behind her work and her passion. As always, I love you so much and thank you for being the listeners. Thank you for gifting us with your time and your presence. Much love.<br><br>Alara Sage (50:54.762)<br>Okay.<br><br><br></p>
